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Show Notes

The best way to build trust in relationships is to genuinely care about the other person. Ask questions and actually listen. People are interested in people that take interest in them.

How can you build trust in business?

  • Come from a place of genuine care. 
  • Give ideas and value away for free.
  • Get rid of the scarcity mindset. Create an abundance mindset.
  • Winning isn’t exclusive. 
  • If wanting other people to wind doesn’t come naturally, don’t worry! It can be learned. 
  • Don’t play defense in business. It’s not about stopping other people from scoring. 
  • When others succeed, I succeed. 
  • Do what is right because it is right.
  • There’s enough business to go around. 

Don’t be desperate!

  • You can tell when someone is trying too hard. 
  • Commission breath can be smelt a mile away. 
  • Sell your product based on it’s value and what it can do for them. Sell it because it can benefit them. Not because you need the sell. 
  • Instead, really get to know your prospects and their needs. In order to do this, you need to be interested and ask questions. 
  • Questions build authentic trust and questions build authentic urgency as well. 
  • Competition is good for business
  • Competition encourages innovation. 
  • Without competition progress slows down.
  • If you build a powerful brand, it will create friction and make it difficult for your customers to leave you. 
  • People can always come back. If they don’t buy from you this time, they can always come back later. 
  • Be confident! People are attracted to confident people.
  • Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It - Chris Voss
  • If you can’t say no, it’s a bad deal. 
  • The 48 Laws of Power - Robert Greene
  • Talk less

How Dalton has built a raving fan base with his podcast

  • The Thinking Project Podcast
  • The purpose of the show is to create a platform for small business owners to tell their story. 
  • Dalton has benefited from his podcast, but his guests have benefited just as much. 
  • When the tide rises, all of the boats rise. 
  • If you create something (like a podcast) with the purpose to build relationships and help, the podcast will be a more powerful tool. 
  • Do the right thing simply because it’s the right thing. When you do that, the value will come back. 
  • Mo’ Bettahs - Hawaiian Style Food
  • There are people in your community that are making the money and impact that you want to make. 
  • They’re willing to talk to you! Don’t be afraid to ask. 
  • Interesting people are interested. 
  • ASK more questions

Care & Competence

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Complete Podcast Transcript

(This transcript was created using software. Please be advised that it won't be 100% accurate, and it may contain formatting errors.)

Jacob Harmon: Welcome back to another episode of trust cast. I'm excited today because I have Dalton Jensen. And one of the cool things about Dalton is I consider him a friend and we've only met. Once before I went to his house and we recorded a podcast together.

But after that one interaction, I really do genuinely consider Dalton to be one of my good friends. So welcome to the show, Johnathan. Thank you so much for being,

Dalton Jenson: Yes, sir. Thank you so much, man. We killed it on that podcast. I love it. Thank you.

How can you build trust in business? [00:01:31]

Jacob Harmon: yeah. And I like to dive into that a little bit  in this podcast episode, because I feel like a lot of people feel that way about you. And I think you're kind of the master trust builder. we both belong to a Facebook group that is basically a local business networking group. And I swear everyone in that group knows who Dalton is. He's just really good at networking and building trust. So I appreciate that about you, man.

Dalton Jenson: Yeah. I really liked that group too. , I found it, uh, by accident thankfully, and it's been a lot of fun, dude. We just, get to know people.

Jacob Harmon:  I want to dive into that just a little bit, I guess, before we even started into anything else, um, how you can use Facebook groups or any social media actually to build trust. What are some of your strategies when it comes to that?

Dalton Jenson: I think my first strategy is just coming from a place of genuine like care. Um, one of my big things for that, that I've learned from tons of different people, In the social media platform and that social media kind of marketers and gurus is, you know, just giving a lot of stuff away for free. Like my ideas, like aren't my original ideas and I'm not married to anything that I give away.

So for me, the first place it starts is from that, that place of, I genuinely want people to win. Um, and I know that there's, you know, I don't believe in scarcity. So when someone else wins, it doesn't mean that I don't win. And I think when people start from that kind of a mindset, you can start to build a lot of trust because people understand, like, you know, cause people genuinely believe that like, Hey, I want you to win.

And you winning doesn't mean that I don't win. And then I think the second thing is coming from a place of truth. So offering a lot of good quality, like, Hey, this is what I would do. You know, if somebody's starting a business and they're like, Hey, uh, my products for everybody, you know, , I'll have a hard conversation with them or, , I'll try to make the comment that I, that I say as nice as I can, but you know, you can't cater to everybody, right?

Not even, not even Amazon caters to everybody, you know, they have a specific group and one thing that trust does is you, you create new customers, right? You pull people into a demographic that you want them to be into. Um, and I'm sure we'll talk about that later, but that's that those are the two things, you know, I start with like genuinely wanting everybody to win, and then I just come from a place of truth.

Jacob Harmon: And do you feel like that genuine care and wanting other people to win? Is that just an innate attribute that you have, or is there a way that people can develop that? If, if that's not something that they have

Dalton Jenson: I think that anybody can develop that. I definitely think I had to learn it, you know, because it's hard. Right. You have a podcast, and I have a podcast. Um, and some people can kind of see that as competition, but I had to learn, you know, my sales career helped me learn that, first of all, like if, if somebody else wins, right?

So in sales, a lot of times people and business people will be like, I need people who are competitive. Well, I don't really believe that, Competitive in the sense of like a sports analogy, right. Because I believe that if I don't play defense, I'm not really competing. Does that make sense? Like, what I mean by defense is like, you know, w when we play a sport or something like that, um, or when you're in, you know, band competitions or whatever, your whatever kind of competition you're in, you're playing defense, you know, there's always a way to stop somebody else from scoring.

 But in business, you don't want to do that, right? Like you don't want to. And especially if like you're on a sales team and you know, you're on the sales floor. Like you don't want to actively be trying to. Diminish someone else's rewards. Does that make sense or like progress?

So for me, like I'm not competitive. I genuinely want people to win. And I think it comes from the fact that I, I genuinely believe that when other people succeed, like. I succeed and that things just come back to me. Um, and it takes a long time for things to come back to you. And some people may never, you know, it may never come back to you the way you think it will, but I believe that as you do the right things because of the right things and as you business from not necessarily a competitive standpoint, but from like, I want, I want to win and I want everybody else to win.

With me, uh, then I think you can develop that mindset. Like the scarcity mindset. A lot of people think that like,  if somebody listens to your podcast, they're not going to listen to mine. And like, obviously that's not true, right?

Jacob Harmon: Yeah. And I think that, I don't know historically, like why this is the case, but I feel like this is a relatively new thing in business. A lot of, kind of the older business mentalities were very much of a competition and let's see what our competitors are doing and how can we stifle them and how can we grow?

And if someone else is growing, then we can't grow. And, but I feel like. There's just, I don't know. There's too much to go around. Like as a website designer, I don't care. I don't care at all. If somebody else builds your website, like. I'm like as long as you've got an awesome website, man. 

That's amazing. I love that because here's the thing I'm as busy as I can be anyways. Like obviously I could scale, I can grow my team. I can, I can probably do a little bit more to be able to take on more, but, but right now I'm busy. Like I probably couldn't take on a whole lot more clients if, even if I had them.

And so I think having that abundance mindset is. It's really important in business and just being willing to say, Hey, there's enough business for everyone. There's enough business to go.

Don't be desperate! [00:07:20]

Dalton Jenson: Yeah. Well, I think it's part of that psychology of business and of sales, right? And of if marketing, you know, when people feel like. Um, you know, I call it, cause I've heard it called this before, but I, I call it commission breath. Right. And, and people can see, and people can smell it, like when you want it too bad or when you're, you know what I mean?

When people, but you can feel it like, and it might not be a salesman, although that's like the main analogy that we use. Right. But businesses. Right. You know, you can tell when someone's trying too hard. It just puts you on the defensive a little bit, right when someone's trying too hard. So if you come in from this mindset, that's like, Hey look, you know, I have this product to offer.

If you, you know, I believe here X, Y, and Z. Here's why, you know, I believe that, you know, highlighting your differences is important, um, because where there's no difference, there can be no preference, but, but highlighting the differences genuinely wanting your customer to succeed builds. Trust right there.

I mean, that's, that's a big part.  I tell this to people all the time, you know, find a marketing plan or a business plan or a sales plan that really develops customer needs. So you ask them a lot of questions, um, because when somebody feels like you're pitching them, like a pitch is when.

I don't know anything about you and I'm trying to sell you something. Uh, sales is when I, I know what you want. I know your situation. I'm trying to work with you and teach you, and then we can come to an agreement, right?

Jacob Harmon (2):  I had an interview with a sales expert a couple of weeks ago, and we talked about that and I've used this analogy before in the podcast, but, um, I'm on LinkedIn and I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. And the one thing I hate about that platform. Is the fact that random people that have never met me before, they've never talked to me before, come on.

And they just throw me a sales pitch. And sometimes it's even a product I would have been interested in, but I'm not interested in their sales tactics. So I absolutely am not going to engage in it. What I'd much rather is connect with me. Start talking to me, get to know me, like connect with me on a human level.

And then eventually I'm probably going to be the one to ask you, Hey, what do you do? And at that point, I'm, I'm more than willing to maybe purchase from you. And so it's all about just being a good person, right? Just being, being genuinely interested.

Dalton Jenson: Yeah. You got to do it all too. Like I'm the same way as you like I've actually, so I've had pitches where they're like, I'm like, wow, that was really good. You know? Cause I'm a sales guy and I'm like, I can appreciate, like, that was good. All right. I'll listen to you.

But I've had other ones where I'm like, dude, you have no idea. I hate the ones where they, they think that I am like a decision maker in my business. All you would have had to do is ask me. And I would have been like, no, that's not me, but I'll point you in the right direction. But you know, you didn't even like, Hey, are you the person I'm supposed to be done?

You know? But like those questions, right? Like, Hey, I don't want to waste your time. Are you the person I'm supposed to be talking to? I'd be like, no, but I know who you didn't even ask me. Right. And so questions build authentic trust and questions. Build authentic urgency as well.

Jacob Harmon: Ooh. I love that. Ask more questions. Like you can never go wrong.

Dalton Jenson: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Jacob Harmon: Love it. Okay. And on this same vein of kind of, the abundancy mindset versus the scarcity mindset, um, I'd like to talk a little bit about competition and how competition actually improves innovation. Uh, I worked for Apple for a while and I wasn't like a product person at Apple.

And in any means I was.  In a more of a marketing role.  But a lot of times, like if a competitor to Apple would come out with some cool feature, I have family and friends reach out to me and be like, yo dude, like Samsung came out with this. Apple's done. And I would always say, well, that's amazing.

Like I'm so happy that another person a competitor is creating this amazing feature. Why? Because that's going to encourage Apple to have to compete on that. And so I actually don't see. And a competitor doing something well as a problem. In fact, I say that's, that's the power of, of the capitalist mindset and of, of competition in our economy is it just improves innovation across the board.

 So w what are your thoughts on that and, and competition, do you think competition is a healthy thing?

Dalton Jenson: Yeah, I totally think competition is a healthy thing. Well, it keeps you on your toes, just like you said, you know, it's a chance for us to really figure out what we want to do and who you want to be. So like yeah. You know, but here's the cool thing since, you know, I'll stay with like the Apple. Con, you know, uh, analogy, right.

They, they build like they built an impressive brand, you know, and that's something that you can't, that's something that's really hard to compete with. So yeah. You create these extra features. And so then it pulls people because I love these features, but man, there's something so powerful about a brand and like people and you trust Apple, you like Apple, you like, uh, right.

I used to work for Honda and Honda was kind of the same way. Right. Really good car, really good stuff. And they would have, they would be, you know, two or three years, four years behind some other manufacturers on technology. Right. But it didn't really hurt you. It didn't really hurt Honda because we had a brand man, I'd be like, yeah, you know, you could, I'd be like, you know, you could go buy whatever and get the cool features.

And I think you should, if you like it. Right. But if you want Honda, if you want what you've always wanted, you know what I mean? If you want, why you love Honda, then, then you'll come back. And most of the time people came back and, and it would lose some people. Sure. But again, like. Not that big of a deal, because if you love what you do, and if you have a brand that you can stand behind that's all right, dude.

And people always come back. That's the other thing is like, maybe, maybe I don't use you on a web design this time, but I can come back. You know what I mean? But if, but if we have that relationship, like I used to tell people all the time, like that's not the only car they're going to buy. That's not the only machine they're ever going to buy.

That's not the only software they're ever going to buy. Like, there's always another opportunity.

Jacob Harmon: Yeah. And at the end of the day, it almost sounds like, I mean, we just need to, to not care so much,

Dalton Jenson:  Here's what I tell people when, when we talk about sales and when we talk about business and when we talk about clients, look, it's, it's just like when you're in the dating scene or when you're in, when you're trying to find something, uh, trying to find a business partner or something like that, you don't go to the business partner or, or a partner that, you know, you want to date.

Um, if they don't have some confidence, you know what I mean? Like. There's an obviously, okay, look, obviously there's exceptions to every rule. All right. I'm not saying that, but you know what, but what I am saying is like, it's a psychology thing. Like if you came up to me, like, I'm a pretty big guy, like I got a beard I'm big and I'm bald.

Right. Um, and so if you saw, you know, if you saw me, you might not come up to me right away, but people are attracted to confidence. And so what I tell people is like, if you're confident and you're relaxed,  that's a real quick way, the gaining trust. Right. and so just be confident, like, ah, just, you know, , I always use this term, but it's funny for me.

, like, if you want to be a really good salesman, you need to get some gangster attitudes. Like I don't care. I will find a way to get paid. Regardless of what happens. Right. And when you have that kind of confidence that like, no one thing can bother me. Like no one thing can kill my attitude.

You're going to attract a lot more people because they're like, Oh, okay. Right. Cause if somebody feels like you've got something to lose, And they're the person that can, you know,  you've got something to lose and I'm going after you to  get it, or whatever, like that'll scare people away.

But if you're confident and you're like, look, man, you can buy it from him. You can buy from him either way. I'm gonna get my money either way. I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get my customer service either way. Right. Then people that is attractive.

Jacob Harmon:  A hundred percent. And I was actually having a conversation. It was a little, it was probably a couple months ago at this point, um, with some of the people that I'm working on this podcast with, and we were just talking about the brand values of, of my company and JMH media and who we wanted to be.

And the conversation came up. That we don't want to be desperate. And I thought that was really interesting.  We don't ever want to go into a sales call like. Being desperate, because if you're desperate or if you, if you need that other person to buy from you, then the negotiation is also going to go way downhill, because you're going to, you're going to let them run all over you because you're the one that needs them.

But if at the end of the day, like you're saying, you're confident and you say, this is the value we can provide to you. And this is what it's worth. And even if you don't buy from us today, that's okay. Like you said, we're going to get our money. Anyway, we're going to find some other

Dalton Jenson: I want to find somebody, right?

Jacob Harmon: Yeah, that people like that confidence.

So, yeah. Super

Dalton Jenson: They really do well, that, that, that selling desperate. That's what I call that's commission breath. Right. Please buy from me, please buy from me. Like no something is wrong than right. And, uh, and I read in a book called never split the difference by Chris Voss. If, if you haven't read that one, somebody you should read it.

Jacob Harmon: I haven't read it.

Dalton Jenson: That's a great one, but one of his main point,  there's a lot of in that book, but one of the ones that I always remember is if, is if you can't say no, it's a bad deal. So like, if I approach a negotiation with you and I'm selling you something, and I can't say no, it's going to be a bad deal.

Jacob Harmon: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I think you need to be able to practice saying no to I'm in business and, and also in your personal life. I think your personal life is a great place to practice saying no. Um, because. And at the end of the day, like there's going to come a point in your life where you have to prioritize things and you have to say, this is more important than this.

Um, X is more important than Y and so you have to be willing to make those decisions and stick to them. So,

Dalton Jenson: Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and that's that's, it  so how does that relate to trust? Right. People. Trust people who have boundaries. Right? And if you, and if you can set good boundaries in your business that like, Hey, look, we know what we're worth and, and are we willing to negotiate?

We're willing to negotiate, but I'm also willing to say no and walk away. And you know what I mean? So we help people, but we also know what we're worth and that's, and that's a good lesson for costumes. That's a good lesson for life. You know what

Jacob Harmon: it, man.

Dalton Jenson: Like set good boundaries and people will trust you.

They know you won't blow with every wind that comes along.

Jacob Harmon: Yeah. And it sounds a little bit counterintuitive. I think our natural inclination is to think that it's the opposite to think, Oh, I have to bend over backwards to accommodate this person so that they'll like me or so that they'll trust me. And I gather there's a point where like, you have to be willing to give, like we've already talked about, but at the same time, people are attracted to people who. Take care of themselves. And if you aren't, if you're letting other people run over you or you're bending over backwards, that every other, every other person then that's, that's not the type of person that's gonna build trust.

Dalton Jenson: Well, when people think that there's something wrong, like if they're trying that hard to sell something like, should I really buy it?  You know, one of the 48 laws of power that Robert Greene talks about in his book, the 48 laws of power is talk less and you can definitely.

Talk your way out of a deal and it's, and it's when  you start being desperate.

Jacob Harmon: Very interesting.

Dalton Jenson: Okay. That book, that books, you got to be careful with that book, but there's a few nuggets that you can get from it.

Jacob Harmon: Well, I haven't read that one either, so I'm just kind of building my Booklist is I'm talking to, you don't know that.

Dalton Jenson: it's good, man. I like that one.

Jacob Harmon: Okay. I'll have to look into that one too. Um,

How Dalton has built a raving fan base with his podcast [00:19:21]

I'd like to talk a little bit about your podcast, because I think you're doing something very unique with your podcast. And the reason I say that is because the people that have been guests on your show are like super advocates for your show. And. Like I said, I reached out in this Facebook group and said, Hey, like I need some, I need some podcast guests and everyone was tagging you.

There I go talk to Dalton, talked about Dr. Dalton. And I was like, dude, Dalton's doing something right. Like with this podcast because everybody who comes off of it. Is is your biggest fan and your biggest advocate. So, um, let's talk a bit, a little bit about your show. What, what's your show what's its purpose.

And then maybe let's talk a little bit about what you're doing to, to build this trust with your guests.

Dalton Jenson: Yeah, the show is. And this is what I was talking about earlier, but the show is only to help to only to have small business owners come on and share their story. Um, when the pandemic hit, I knew that there were small businesses who were going to cut their marketing budget because that's just what you do.

, and, and for good or for better, for worse, that's what, that's what they did. And so I brought them on  so that they could tell their stories so that they could have a good place to get, you know, to tell the whole story too, right? Like, brand building a brand is good and you can build a brand in short segments and people should, but there's also a cool place where people will sit down and they'll listen to a 45 minute, an hour long podcast.

Um, and that's what I wanted to bring to people. I just help people. I just want people to succeed. I want the small businesses to make it.  I love supporting local people.  I obviously I shop at Walmart and Amazon. Right. But, um, but I also like to shop with small businesses because it means something.

And when you can have other people succeed, like. People trust you like, have I benefited from my podcast? Of course, but other people have benefited just as much or more than me. And that's what, that's what matters. And, and so I'll never try to be like, you know, I do all this stuff, uh, for free or whatever, but, but when the tide rises all the boats rise and that's what I was looking to do.

Jacob Harmon: I love that so much. I think that. Content marketing is, is such a powerful thing and podcasting I'm, I'm an, a huge advocate of podcasting. I think every business should have a podcast and, and that's to market their business.  I think the problem that a lot of podcasts have is they go into it with that mindset that this is to grow my business.

And this is to be a marketing tool. And this is, this is an asset, which it is. But I think if you have that mindset, it won't be as effective because it's purpose isn't to help isn't to rise the tide, like you were saying.

Dalton Jenson: And that's what, and that's what people, that's what we like. Do you know what I mean? Because I just feel like at the end of the day, , this podcast, . You know, if something happened and I couldn't publish another episode and,  let's say even all of my episodes are taken offline.

My relationships that I have with the people that I met will always be there. And those are more valuable than. Anything else, because there's that, there's that rest of law of reciprocity, right? Like that, you know? Um, so I'll say two things about the law of reciprocity. The law of reciprocity is like, uh, things like, because statements like, uh, they did that study where they cut in line.

They asked people to cut in line to the copier. And they were the people who didn't have a reason weren't allowed in front. But the reason was as simple as like, can I cut in line because I need to meet a deadline. People were 75% more likely to get in front of the line. Right.

Jacob Harmon: Interesting.

Dalton Jenson: It's a, it's a give and take thing.

The second thing I'll say about the law of reciprocity is that's not why you should do it. I believe in doing the right thing, just because it's the right thing and things come back and people return favors, and people love you back. That just inevitably happens. But if you start with, I'm going to do this with no expectation of anything in return.

You're going to be a lot happier and you're going to be so much more happier when the love comes back your way. So that's what I, that's what I think.  But why do people, why does the love come back? Because you did it from what the right intention.

Jacob Harmon: A hundred percent. Yeah. And people see through you, like, if you don't have those right intentions and this goes back, I mean, we've said this multiple times already, but that

Dalton Jenson: but you're right. But they know,

Jacob Harmon: it in my own way. Interesting. Okay. So we, we go into this with a good attitude to actually help people.

And then, but the benefits do come. And so I would like to talk about those benefits, even though I think it's important that we made it clear that that's not the reason we do it. Um, but what benefits have you seen from your podcast? I know that you have a CBD company. Um, has, have you seen leads coming into that or what are the benefits that you've seen from your

Dalton Jenson:  I started the podcast so that I could plug my CBD business. Yeah. That's what I did it for. Like every episode is sponsored by happiest. Um, so that's a benefit. The benefit is I, you know, here's, I'll tell you the craziest story. Okay. I interviewed, um, local here in Utah. There's a restaurant chain called Mo Betty's Hawaiian style food. Uh, I love my bed is like I'm Hawaiian. That's my jam. I love every Hawaiian restaurant that I can find. I will though tell you that. The co-founder of Mo Bennett. So it was founded by two brothers, Kimo, Mac and Kalani Mac. I got to interview Kimo Mac and there they're doing very well. They just opened their, they're on their 16th or 17th restaurant started in bountiful, Utah in 2008,  right before the crash, during the crash.  He's doing very well and the smartest business dude you'll ever meet in your life. And here's the benefit that, that I got from podcasting. That dude is chemo. Mack is the nicest man in the world. Um, but think about. , getting a lunch with Jeff Bezos or Warren buffet. In fact, uh, lunch with Warren buffet, Jill was just auctioned off last year for $4.5 million.

That's how much someone paid to have lunch with Warren buffet, and I'm telling you and everybody who's listening that there are people next door to you. Who live the life you want to live, who make the money you want to make, and who will sit down with you and give you all the info you need. Chemo. Max spent two hours with me on, on my podcast and gave me millions of dollars worth of nuggets

Jacob Harmon: Yeah.

Dalton Jenson: and info.

And. I just invited him to be on a podcast. And I mean, and I mean, obviously I'll go back and say, Kimo max, the nicest dude you'll ever meet, but, and his restaurant is the bomb. Mobile is the bomb. He did something. Right. But what I'm saying is.  What I've benefited from and what I want other people to know is that there's somebody right next door.

That's making the money. You want to make this live in the life you want to live, and they will go , and eat lunch with you. And you can, and let them pick your brain. Right. You might have to pay for the lunch, but it's probably not going to be $4.5 million if you even get, and that's, by the way, that's, if you even got to have lunch with Warren Buffett or Jeff Bezos, or any of these guys, right.

 So. The biggest benefit is sitting down with all these amazing business owners and learning from them. And then I get, that because I just invited them on a podcast and we just talked and I get to use all of that in my personal life. That's that's probably the biggest benefit.

Jacob Harmon: I love it, man. Yeah. It's, it's a networking tool. It's a tool to, to get, to meet people and provide. Once again, we're coming back around full circle to provide value. Right.

Dalton Jenson: Yeah.

Jacob Harmon: It's amazing. 

Dalton Jenson:  One last thing on that note is just, don't be afraid to ask people, get confident, uh, have something that you can offer for me. It was like a podcast. That was it. You know what I mean? Anybody can start a podcast, you know, we should go to you if they have questions about it.

Jacob Harmon: Yeah, well, feel free to let me know if you have a question about podcasting, I'm happy to help. Um, I agree. And that's one of the things starting this podcast and also the podcast that I had before, this is my second podcast, but. I've been amazed at how willing people are to come on podcast interviews.

Like I thought that was going to be hard. I thought finding guests was going to be one of my issues. It has not been an issue. And the only time it has been an issue is if I've been lazy and haven't been staying on top of it. And then I have to say, okay, I need an interview this weekend, which is what I just did.

Um,

Dalton Jenson: I love it though.

Jacob Harmon: But like, it's so easy to fill your schedule because so many people want to provide that value. So many people are just chomping at the bit to jump on an interview with someone and tell them all their secrets, which is so interesting to me.

Dalton Jenson: well, yeah, listen, . Right. Interesting. People are interested. That's it people who, if, if you want to build trust with somebody, be interested, that's it, man. Like, did you ever hear about that? That, um, and I, by the way I tried this and it, and it freaking works, but again, in this never split the difference book.

This guy goes to a party and he uses this technique called mirroring. Right? And that's when you go, somebody says, uh, you know, just for example, right. Um, man, I really love basketball and you go, you really love basketball and they tell you more. Right. And there's yeah, I love it because I, I score a lot of points and I love being on my team.

You love being on your team and they'd tell you more about the team, right? And this guy had a whole conversation and never said one word other than. He, he didn't say anything except ask two or three questions. The guy left the, the conversation was like, wow, that guy is amazing. That guy is like, he's so fun to talk to.

He's so interesting. Right. And he was like, dude, I asked five questions and I didn't even ask. They weren't even like original questions. They were just me mirroring. Right. But people like to talk about themselves and that's a good thing by the way.

Jacob Harmon: You're talking about yourself. Try not the tactic.

Dalton Jenson: Well, you can all, but it's, you know, it's that give and take, you know, when it's the time for me to talk about myself, I love it. But when it's a time for me to listen and ask questions, I listen and ask question.

Jacob Harmon: Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. And, and people, people love people who are interested in them and who want to listen. So yeah,   

Dalton Jenson: that's a great technique and you don't have to be special. Like it's not a Jedi mind trick. You don't have to go to college to learn it. Right. All you gotta do. Like, and by the way, it's a really powerful if we're talking about business and stuff, sales, it's a really powerful negotiating tool.

If you don't know what to say, ask them a question, right? Hey, that the price is too. Hi, you pause. The price is too high. They'll tell ya. They'll tell you,

Jacob Harmon: Tell you why? Yeah.

Dalton Jenson: it's 40 grand in 40 grand. Yeah,

Jacob Harmon:  So really it's all just, I think the theme of this podcast for me at least has really been, be interested in people and be interested in providing value to people and doing it for the right reasons because you actually care.

Care & Competence [00:31:08]

Dalton Jenson: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, Amy Cuddy is a, is a Harvard psychologist, Harvard professor. She wrote a book called presence,  where, and she actually liked the whole thing that she studies is trust in people,

Jacob Harmon: I have someone to reach out to, to be on the show then.

Dalton Jenson: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, dude. I mean, dude, I mean, Amy Cuddy is great. She wrote a book called presence at Harvard professor, but she did a study and um, she said people measure trust off of two things. Um, two questions. Right? I forgot the specific words she uses, but I remember the questions, uh, do they care? And can they help me?

Right. Karen. I remember the words, Karen competence. So do that. Do they know? So in order for us to trust somebody, like they got to know that we care, like genuinely that we. Want the best for them. Right. So do you care? And then the next part of trust is, do they actually know what they're saying? Right. Do they know what they're talking about?

Cause that's the other thing like this guy actually cares, but he can't help me. I love that you care, but I need somebody who can actually get stuff done. And when they rated those things, so, so you have to have them, right. And you can't be 50 50.  They rated care over competence by a little bit.

So, so people. Care more about if you care, , you can get away with not knowing as much as somebody else, if you care. Okay.

Jacob Harmon: But you still have to have a little bit of both, right?

Dalton Jenson: You do. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't be like, well, yeah, I want to help you. I have no clue how to help you, but I want you to succeed. Well, then I love you, bud, but you know what I mean?

Jacob Harmon: Yeah, that's like my mom, right? Like I know she cares about me. I know she loves me. Is she the best business person in the world? Probably not like, but, but, but I still love her, you know? Um, but, but I'm not going to necessarily trust her with running my business. Um, but, but there are other people who care about me.

Genuinely and show me that they care, but then they also have that competency. Um, fascinating. Okay. Well that makes a lot of sense to me.

Dalton Jenson: Yeah, it's great , that book was on body language, but she, but she talked about how body language, you know, was connected to trust and then how your body language before people see you, they can tell if you care and if you know, but, and that's part of confidence anyway. That's a good one. I like

Jacob Harmon: Very interesting. Cool. Well, before we kind of wrap things up a little bit, Dalton, is there anything related to trust or brand loyalty or marketing that we have not touched on that you'd like to like to rant about a little bit?

Dalton Jenson: no, I think we've hit everything on the head. I just think that, you know, um, I know that there's, I think one of the most, not one of the most, but you know, when somebody says, like, if I can do it, anybody can do it. I get pretty skeptical of that, but I genuinely want people to know that, um, You won't be good at it right away, but you can get there, you know, and if you've got a good coach and if you got to get team, like you can learn how to do these things.

If you want to learn how to do these things,

Jacob Harmon: Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Dalton. I'm going to point everyone over to your podcast. It's a great podcast. If you just want to hear stories of startup entrepreneurs or small businesses, um, it's called the thinking project. Since you're probably listening to this in a podcast app right now, just click on the search button and type the thinking project and you'll find Dalton's podcast.

Is there anything else you'd like to plug Dalton? Any, any place we should send people?

Dalton Jenson:  If they want to join the group, there's a thinking project group. But other than that, man, I appreciate your time. And I love talking with you.

Jacob Harmon: And I'll add that Dalton does a great job on that group. Guys. He asks genuine questions. It's not just a Facebook group where he's promoting his podcast. Like he, he has some engaging questions in that group. So if you want to think a little more, uh, it's a good place to hang out,

Dalton Jenson: Yes, sir.

Jacob Harmon: Okay. Well, thank you so much, Dawn.

I appreciate you being on the show.

Dalton Jenson: Thank you.